Curse

BigTru · Jul 22, 2005, 09:47 PM // 21:47

I've always pondered the logic in this.

If someone on your team is using Quickening Zephyre, they most likely have a build which utilizes it.

Yes, it can effect your teams' casters negatively, but that would also mean it is effecting the other team's casters negatively. Because you have someone on your team that is utilizing it for their build, that would put you at an advantage.

It seems to me that the people who complain about it are only thinking of themselves, but are not looking at the wider picture (your teamate who uses it and the foes it effects), unless I am missing something.

CleverAlias · Jul 22, 2005, 09:52 PM // 21:52

It always helps if someone has energyzing wind.

Phades · Jul 22, 2005, 10:09 PM // 22:09

Energizing wind only really helps elementalists, and only if they are using the 15-25 mana spells, but they typically have the longest recharges too, so if they only need to use them once and have no recharge time spammables to use after them then its alright.

Ranger spirits mess with caster efficency more often than help them.

theclam · Jul 22, 2005, 10:12 PM // 22:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by CleverAlias

It always helps if someone has energyzing wind.

Not for my Monk. I rarely use any spells costing more than 10 energy.

Quickening Zephyr is probably the most debilitating spirit for all casters. Even though it hurts the enemy, too, it's extremely annoying. I would complain about any Ranger who used it, regardless of their build. If you craft a team build around it, then it's useful, otherwise, it's not.

d4nowar · Jul 22, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

I don't like Zephyr. Serpents Quickness is more efficient. I use Zephyr as more of a disrupting tactic than a personal bonus.

BigTru · Jul 22, 2005, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

Not for my Monk. I rarely use any spells costing more than 10 energy.

Quickening Zephyr is probably the most debilitating spirit for all casters. Even though it hurts the enemy, too, it's extremely annoying. I would complain about any Ranger who used it, regardless of their build. If you craft a team build around it, then it's useful, otherwise, it's not.

How isn't it useful?

Your build is centered around it, giving your team an advantage. It might hurt your monks, but it also hurts the other teams monk. Therefore, you have an advantage.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jul 22, 2005, 10:29 PM // 22:29

It is mainly that most of your team mate are not well build for such increase in the energy requirement.

Ollj · Jul 22, 2005, 10:34 PM // 22:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

I've always pondered the logic in this.
...

It seems to me that the people who complain about it are only thinking of themselves, but are not looking at the wider picture (your teamate who uses it and the foes it effects), unless I am missing something.

so
what ponders you?

just use it with the right timing. let the stupid eles cast their spells to exhaustion, then quickening, and they charge faster and noone pays more for spells!

BigTru · Jul 22, 2005, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

It is mainly that most of your team mate are not well build for such increase in the energy requirement.

And neither is the other team.

Mercury Angel · Jul 22, 2005, 10:55 PM // 22:55

How about most people are selfish and pay little to no attention to anyone else-

That is, let's say you had one caster and 3 rangers on your team, and 4 casters on the enemy team.

Toss up quickening zephyr, and most of the time the caster on your team will proceed to berate you.

I've had that happen before too.

When you choose your spirits and cast them carefully so as to maximize the advantage you get, they're great. Some people just fail to understand that.

Against a team of 3 warriors and a maintained enchanter, I tossed up Primal Echoes.

The one warrior in our team proceeded to insult me, so I ditched when the match was over.

The same goes for Nature's Renewal-
Against people COATED in enchantments, and made very VERY hard to kill, you want to use it. Most of the time, any people in your team using hexes or enchantments will get pissed off at you.

But this of course goes for effective use of nature spirits.

However, you can imagine that if most people don't properly appreciate or understand nature spirits for turning the tides of battle, then quite a few people weilding nature spirits don't stop to think when they should and shouldn't use their spirits either.

Ever seen a person toss up a chain of nature spirits at the start, some of which help, and some of which hinder your team more than the enemies?

I know I have.

Some people go into the arena with nature spirits thinking they're uber and don't bother picking and choosing.

Predatory Season when your team is the only one with monks?
Winnowing with a team of casters against warriors?
Fertile Season with air ele's in your team?

I've seen those too...

manga · Jul 22, 2005, 11:29 PM // 23:29

quickening zephyr is AMAZING when all of your monks are E/Mos running ether renewal. Ether renewal is down for a MAX of 5 seconds with a zephyr up, making it almost impossible to run out of mana at again a MAX of 2 mana per orison/reversal and even if they arent quite as much healing, they are definately more spammable.

How the HELL do people complain that zephyr is bad?!?!?

play to you teams strengths.

theclam · Jul 22, 2005, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

And neither is the other team.

You don't know that. The other team could be Ranger or Warrior heavy, while your team could be caster heavy.

BigTru · Jul 23, 2005, 12:04 AM // 00:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by theclam

You don't know that. The other team could be Ranger or Warrior heavy, while your team could be caster heavy.

I do know that. All I have to do is look at the setup of the opposing team and use judgement.

LoneDust · Jul 23, 2005, 12:07 AM // 00:07

I have no problem with it if my teammate tells me ahead of time. I would choose skills or, if random arena, avoid using skills that would mess up my energy management. I believe communication is the key here.

ICURADik · Jul 23, 2005, 12:33 AM // 00:33

It seems like 75% of top guilds are running Quickening with the Monks using Energy Drain or Offering of Blood. This actually gives your monks more energy because of the ability to use both those spells twice as much. It also severly hurts the other teams monks.

Deathlord · Jul 23, 2005, 02:50 AM // 02:50

Ok, zephyr isn't a great skill, but it definetly doesn't suck. It pisses me off how some idiots that join a spirit spam team get so pissed at quickening zephyr despite you telling them how it works or how to use it to the max. Quickening zephyr is there to cause a global shift to all the teams. Utilizing it to its maximum effect is up to the team to decide. If 2 builds that were exactly the same fought each other using quickening zephyr, then the results will probably be based on luck. A team that specifically molds itself so that zephyr becomes a blessing rather than a burden can most often beat a team that isn't fit for the area.

Creed · Jul 23, 2005, 03:52 AM // 03:52

Lets face it. Quicking Zephyr is a ranger skill because it helps them significantly (specially at 12 expertise) and like any skill it's designed to adversly effect the enemy.

Fine, but... nature rituals effect everyone. And while some people will use their better judgment and only carry it if they have the support of a co-operative team, others will use it reguardless. And for every co-opertive ranger there are 3 'cowboy' rangers.

I can tell you, i've a ranger myself, and Quickening Zephyr is a great skill, when used properly. Natures renewal also helps my ranger alot. At the same time, i've also a Necro, and if those two spirits are caxt while i'm using him, i can litterly be shutdown by my own team mates. (Since we are alking about random / pick up teams, otherwise if you're talking about organised groups and still moaning... you have problems, problems only a doctor can appreciate fully.)

30% More energy required seems like a nice idea when you're a ranger with a -60% cast cost anyway, so you're safe, but for those rangers of you who have never played a primary monk let me explain how this effects the team. (Considering yet again the team is'nt prepared for the ritual).

Ranger General: 'O no, my double shot now costs 7 energy, rather than its usual 4.'

Necromancer General: 'Phew it's not natures renewal'

Necromancer Blood: 'Huh? 13 energy for a vamp gaze? 13 for a life sipheon? o.. ****.
Necromancer Curses: 'Chilblains 7 more energy? Lol. Lingering curse 7 more too? Spitful spirit costing how much? *uses /sit command& GG ranger'

Necromancer Death: 'No fiends for me

time for plan B.. *looks around*

Warrior: 'Huh where am i? What's going on? I hope they dont have blind'

Warrior Axe: 'My skills are 5 energy or less anyway ^^'
Warrior Hammer: 'Belly smash faster? ^^'
Warrior Sword: 'O..k Hamstrings gonna sting the ol' energy, and over half my attack skills are energy based' :/

Mesmer General: 'What nature ritual? *interrupts* ^^'
Mesmer Inspiration: 'Haha, like those fool's would have energy anyway ^^'
Mesmer Domination: 'All but one of my skills are 10 energy or higher :/ aww crap.'
Mesmer illusion: 'Where's a 5 energy skill when you need it?'

Monk General: '*stands far away* saying: 'muhuhahah yes ignore the little person keeping them all alive'.
Monk Healer: 30% Less healing? Wow.. what genius thought this one up?Monk Potection: 'Aww crap -.-'. Everything is virtually 18 energy.
Monk Smiter: 'I love blessed signet'.
__________________________________________________ ____________

Ok.. so i went a little off track... hell alot off track. Yet you can easily see my point, There really is'nt alot of builds which can handle being hit for +30% energy, that you'll run into in the 4 v 4 arena. Or in a pick up group for tomb. Most people will need a decent game plan against it, obviouly there are quite a few, but very few people are ready to execute alone, in a 4 v 4 arena. since virtually no team work usually exsists until you've 3+ wins on the board.

Moltov joss · Jul 23, 2005, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by manga

quickening zephyr is AMAZING when all of your monks are E/Mos running ether renewal. Ether renewal is down for a MAX of 5 seconds with a zephyr up, making it almost impossible to run out of mana at again a MAX of 2 mana per orison/reversal and even if they arent quite as much healing, they are definately more spammable.

How the HELL do people complain that zephyr is bad?!?!?

play to you teams strengths.

Would you like to be a monk when zeyphyr is up NO!!! unless like you stated that your built for it. PUG's random compition arena's all make for bad stories for the zeyphyrs. Meaning its only good for ORGANIZED PLAY!

Aaaaagh · Jul 23, 2005, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigTru

How isn't it useful?

Your build is centered around it, giving your team an advantage. It might hurt your monks, but it also hurts the other teams monk. Therefore, you have an advantage.

Maybe, maybe not. Even though you have planned for it, that doesnt mean its helping your team. If your team is caster heavy, and the opponents isnt, you just screwed your team.

This is a great skill that should only be used for specific builds that require it, rangers who bring it into random builds unannounced are just not team players.

Zeru · Jul 23, 2005, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Yet there are so many of the 'cowboy rangers.' It's the like the warrior monk crew who loves mending switched over to the spirit spammer role. I've seen a team with 4 air eles drop zephyr and fertile, teams who drop fertile when they are trying to take the altar in the last 2 minutes, teams who drop only conflag when I'm sitting on the altar in ward v harm, etc, etc. It's really sad, I don't think half the pvpers in this game really know what the skills they are bringing are there for and that's not even getting into the even worse pvers. /me sighs

As for zephyr, make sure your casters are prepared for it and bring extra energy regen methods. I generally will have it in in an energy denial build, usually on the echo/debil ranger and our monks are well forewarned to make sure they have very good energy regen methods/energy efficient healing cause if you don't it will eat you alive.